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 What do you think of this?

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Ussula2



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PostSubject: What do you think of this?   Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:39 pm

im just curious what everything thinks of this whole economic melt down and the way the corporations and officials in charge are handling it. lets not forget how the media handles it either. this includes everything directly or indirectly related to the topic as a result of the issue at hand. i particuliarly am curious to know what you think of the proitestors and the way they are being treated, the 99 percenters and the occupiers and the "anonymous" people movements.

this may seem waaaay off topic and i guess it is but we are all human beings and this is a pretty serious crisis right now. maybe theres a way to help?
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:41 am

Ussula2 wrote:
im just curious what everything thinks of this whole economic melt down and the way the corporations and officials in charge are handling it. lets not forget how the media handles it either. this includes everything directly or indirectly related to the topic as a result of the issue at hand. i particuliarly am curious to know what you think of the proitestors and the way they are being treated, the 99 percenters and the occupiers and the "anonymous" people movements.

this may seem waaaay off topic and i guess it is but we are all human beings and this is a pretty serious crisis right now. maybe theres a way to help?

Makes me think of the beginnings of the French Revoultion and the overthrow of the Czars.Anarchy perhaps.
SC.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:34 am

This is how the revolution started. Did you guys see "The Billionaires' Tea Party"? I happened to catch it on Link TV a few months ago. I don't know what your political beliefs are, but this documentary was truly frightening to me. An unbiased Australian documentarian wanted to find out about the Tea Party and how the movement spread into mainstream America. He uncovered some scary stuff. The Koch brothers are the founders, along with 4 other "too big to fail" corporate owners. The tea partiers have no idea they are being used to further these guys' agenda. The tea partiers have been subtly brainwashed - a very Facist technique.

I am with the OWS protestors in spirit. I believe the police and local governments are inciting a lot of the trouble. I think they manufacture disturbances so the groups will be discredited. All the right wingers who so blatantly bash the OWS don't realize that the OWS demands are exactly the same demands of the original Tea Party. Tea Partiers think they are about taxes only. Oh, the irony! I think that the powers that be are a little frightened by the protests. We the people are not stupid and we have had enough! Mad

GREED is the whole issue. Since the deregulation of banks, insurance companies and utilities, they have run rampant. Government needs to have a hand in these entities again. It is both parties that have screwed our country over. Congress is full of millionaiers who have major interests in big business and have their pockets lined with corporate monies.

The president has had out and out rebellion since before he was sworn in. To publicly state that the Repubs will not work with him is absolutely disgraceful.. Mitch McConnell is the senator from my state. He is as corrupt as any of them - his pockets are lined with oil, tobacco and coal money.

Most of Kentucky is rural. Most live at the poverty level or below, yet they continually, year after year, vote republican - the very party that is hurting them. Unbelievable. And they live for their unions( a very democratic idea).

Well, I didn't mean to rant, SORRY. I get started and can't seem to stop. LOL I could go on and on, but then I would get angry and I don't want to do that1 LOL! Very Happy
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Ussula2



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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:22 pm

heres a thought...maybe these people who keep voting for the same people each year who keep hurting them and are proven corrupt are either brainwashed by their fake agendas and bs speeches , or maybe the votes are being altered higher up? i have a hard time believing people who know the full truth of an issue and have full control of their free will would willingly vote for a party that hurts them so badly unless they were one of the ones profiting from it.

i alkso believe that while these protestors fight for whats right they are also made up oif many individual human beings all with their own brainse and choices and some of them may malke decisions while protesting that can be exaggerated or used against the movement in public medias. it is sad that an entire movement can be discredsited so easily based on the actions of like 10 people when there are a total of millions nationwide in the movement who are not behaving that way.

i also believe that it is indeed making the powers that be nervous because they do know how fragile their hold oin control odf the people really is. it is literally 99 percent psychologicval. if everyone just simply refused to follow orders when those orders are clearly immoral then they would lose their control. its so simple a comcept yet getting everyone to understand it can be difficult and gettin everyone to enact it even harder but i think its possible.

but here is the main area of concern i have for this new movement.

aside from annoying the crap out of the people whose areas they are occupying, the protestors have almost no strrength. their strength is coming only from those who have the know how and the guts to do things that are questionably illegal such as hacking and so forth but even that is usually not a major inconvenience forf long. all the while the cops and other authjorities are tracking these people and beginning to harrass them. the occupiers and so forth will begin to experience an increase in resistance and abuse as time goes on simply because the government can get away weith it. but when the occupiers break the rules they will be arrested. basically they will be pushed around and even ignored entirely.

to catch a thief one must think like a thief... i have thoiught about this and what would i do if i were a big wig corrupt corporate ceo or something? one of the ones being protested? well quite honestly , aside from harrassing these people and trying to beat them down, i would just ignore them. if i looked out my window and saw them down there i would simply shut the blinds on ther window and not look and go about my business as usual.

just simply standing on the street en masse with picket signs is not going to change anything and it wont hold anyones attention for very long. one must be doing other things as well that not only get attention but succeed at pressuring things to change for the better.

the problem is that because just standing there holding signs all day does nothing to affect the evil peopl;es hearts and minds, and hacking only annoys them and creates hostility between us all that will lead to no where good, it will actually require nothing less than a revolution to make change happen. anything from crackers (thats the hacker hackers not the caucasion people lol)and possibly more aggressive actions. and that is what concerns me. while i know that real long lastoing change cannot happen woith out it , for freedom is never free among mankind, theni know the controversy will be around it, people could be harmed. it is a sad time and a hard choice for those who are involved directly. they could be labeled terrorists or treasoners. but if you think about it, george washington and all the signers of the declaragtion of indepenance were traitors to the king until they actually won then they became instant heroes.

but it still troubles my heart to think about all sides of the issue.

oh, and just so you know, ive heard of a national, possibly even global, emergency broadcast system test that the american gov is going to launch in the daytime on the internet on nov 9th. if this is true or not i cannot be sure but the ruimor is that they are up to something to gain control of the net or be able to better track the occupiers activities online and so forth so just be aware of that.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:45 pm

They have been advising people on TV also about the test on NOv 9th at 2 p.m. and not to be concerned it is only a test. I thought this was a bit odd as we have these tests or something similar quite often.

I am almost 67 and I have never seen the world in such a mess, it seems asthough every country is is in some kind of turmoil. Our country is certainly in a mess economically and socially.

As to the protesters, here the city goverment is saying it cost them $18000 last week to patrol the campsites. This money is going to come out of the taxes I have to pay. Next will come the cost of cleaning up the site.

Perhaps the Mayans are correct, although I have never thought much of theory of Dec 2012.
SC
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:12 pm

No, the OWS doesn't have a lot of strength, but they have certainly brought the issues into everyone's household. And that is what the idea behind any protest really is. This country is being run by corporations and those folks who didn't believe it, know now. I do think that over time, there will be representatives of the movement going before congress. Laws will get changed, albeit slowly. The movement will become stronger, more cohesive, with more of a stable base.

This mess cannot be fixed overnight as so many want it to be. It took many, many years to get here and it will take many years to fix. It has to start with groups like OWS to get the message out there. The rest will fall into place. Fair taxation and rampant corporate greed have got to be addressed, but unless Congress is completely overhauled, and we get corporations and their money out of the mix, things will never change.

The media is manipulating both sides of the protest for sure. Maybe they are under orders from high up to report against them like they do. Their stations are part of the corporate rulers. after all. Sure, if the protestors break the law they must suffer the consequences, but so few have caused any trouble.

I think the problem with my state being so red for so long actually stems from prejudice and hate. And fear of changing the status quo. Racial prejudice and intolerance of all kinds live big time in KY. A black man ( of course he's half white) in the white house is an abomination to most of KY.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:19 pm

Have you guys noticed how all of this mess mirrors the world in 1929? The whole world was in a depression and it took a world war to get us out. That scares the the pooh out of me. We have been in a depression for quite a while, whether the news media will admit it or not. We never got out of the recession of 2000 - just continued and worsened. Even the totalitarian governments that are collapsing mirror events of the 1930's. It's very sobering.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:45 pm

onetruebeliever wrote:
No, the OWS doesn't have a lot of strength, but they have certainly brought the issues into everyone's household. And that is what the idea behind any protest really is. This country is being run by corporations and those folks who didn't believe it, know now. I do think that over time, there will be representatives of the movement going before congress. Laws will get changed, albeit slowly. The movement will become stronger, more cohesive, with more of a stable base.

This mess cannot be fixed overnight as so many want it to be. It took many, many years to get here and it will take many years to fix. It has to start with groups like OWS to get the message out there. The rest will fall into place. Fair taxation and rampant corporate greed have got to be addressed, but unless Congress is completely overhauled, and we get corporations and their money out of the mix, things will never change.

The media is manipulating both sides of the protest for sure. Maybe they are under orders from high up to report against them like they do. Their stations are part of the corporate rulers. after all. Sure, if the protestors break the law they must suffer the consequences, but so few have caused any trouble.

I think the problem with my state being so red for so long actually stems from prejudice and hate. And fear of changing the status quo. Racial prejudice and intolerance of all kinds live big time in KY. A black man ( of course he's half white) in the white house is an abomination to most of KY.


well the thing is that they still need to protest even if it does cost tax dollars to police them. costing the gov tax dollars even tho that came from tax payers is no reason not to protest. the consequences of not protesting are far greeater than the cost to police the camps. besides, the cost itself is probably part of what protectrs the protesters. so long as the gov believes it will cost more to abuse and remove these peopel against the laws of our own constitution then we still have hope. they may not have much military might against the gov but they do have one thing on their side...pure basic math and finances of prosecuiting and abusing all these people. it keeps the gov hounds at bay.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:49 pm

onetruebeliever wrote:
Have you guys noticed how all of this mess mirrors the world in 1929? The whole world was in a depression and it took a world war to get us out. That scares the the pooh out of me. We have been in a depression for quite a while, whether the news media will admit it or not. We never got out of the recession of 2000 - just continued and worsened. Even the totalitarian governments that are collapsing mirror events of the 1930's. It's very sobering.


one problem with protestors breakign the law is that the gov in power can really put into effect at any time any kind of law they want to , even if it does trample the constitution and our rights as citizens simply beacuse when yttou are the law you make the laws. when this happens do the protestors give in to that and go home? if the gov makes a law that protesting is illegal do they just go home and give up? sometimes when a law is corruypt it needs to be broken, but also people need to know that being brave and breaking unfair corrupt laws does have consequences, sometimes permanant ones.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:27 am

I wholeheartedly believe that some laws are made to be broken. Unjust and corrupt laws need to be broken in order for the issues to be brought to the forefront. Change wlil then occur.

The right to peaceful protest is written into the constitution. Just like the anti-war protests and the civil rights protests of the 60's, these guys have every right to protest and the police have no legal right to stop it. But because the local governments were being pressured, they did try to break them up. It is when the police get involved that violence starts. They are the instigators.

I would think most of the protestors would stand their ground and risk arrest if some laws were to suddenly and mysteriously appear on the books. But, that smacks of dictatorship, Stalinesque dictatorship. Hitleresque facism. I have to believe that our legislators are not stupid enough to arbitrarily override the constitution. The people are not stupid and we cannot be kept in the dark like years past.

There is hope for our country, but people have to get over their fear of change and give things time to work.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:08 am

First let me say I am not uspset with anyone, but after the private email I received from one on the list I will step out of this discussion. Let me say that neither of the persons who sent the email have posted on this topic, but rather from a lurker.

SC
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:19 pm

Oh my gosh SC! I hope it wasn't hateful. We were just having a grown up discussion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one has the right to be mean and hateful because they don't agree. I don't blame you. Good grief!
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:26 pm

onetruebeliever wrote:
Oh my gosh SC! I hope it wasn't hateful. We were just having a grown up discussion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one has the right to be mean and hateful because they don't agree. I don't blame you. Good grief!

I am not worried about it, I enjoy the forum and will keep posting but just not under this threadl.
SC
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:29 pm

southerncharm wrote:
First let me say I am not uspset with anyone, but after the private email I received from one on the list I will step out of this discussion. Let me say that neither of the persons who sent the email have posted on this topic, but rather from a lurker.

SC

people also need to get over thie rfear of being arrested and spending any amount of time in jail if we want real change as well since they have been arresting o few of the protestors lately. people cant let intimidation tactics work on them or they may as well go home now and bend right over for the gov dictators.

and yes i was just thinkin last night all this looked very familiar to the video cclips i had seen of the 1960's civil rights movement. same exact things were happening again. thought we as a people as a nation had gotten past that but apparently not. just goes to show our gov hasnt really changed at all but only appeared on the outside to us to change. we need real change at the core.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:32 pm

im also concerned about people who may be too fanatical or just plain crazy getting all the media attention and makin the movement look bad. theres a deffirtence between not givign up in the face of gov intimidation and then just being crazy about it. azlready there were a few news stories i saw on tv last week about the occupiers and how out of like hundreds of thousands of peaceful porotestors just a handful decided to deface buildings in the area and thats what got all the bad hype in the news story and it made ALL the occupiers look bad. especially since the buildings they damaged belonged to ma and pa shops and a clothing store. if they felt the irresistable urge to strike out like that at least they could deface a building that is actually relavant to the cause such as a bank =o
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:33 pm

onetruebeliever wrote:
Oh my gosh SC! I hope it wasn't hateful. We were just having a grown up discussion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one has the right to be mean and hateful because they don't agree. I don't blame you. Good grief!


what the heck...thats ridiculous...i hope it wasnt anything threatening or mean to you.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:42 pm

I'll bet those few who do vandalize and try to incite riots are not protestors - they are there to cause violence for the sake of violence. They find venues like this just so they reek havoc. I am sure there is a fanatical element and they probably do create trouble, but in this instance, I think it's outsiders coming in for the heck of it. Who knows? Some could be plants by the "opposition".

You are right about change at the core. Our government as a whole needs to change. Congress needs a complete overhaul - no more career politicians. One term only - not even 6 years for senators 1 or 2 years. No incumbents. No pensions, they pay for their healthcare the same as we have to do. Deflate their salaries. Absolutely NO LOBBY money or gifts. Limit campaign contributions to individuals only - very small amounts of cash. Eliminate the electoral college - go popular vote only.

These positions are service positions, not career opportunities. Only those persons who truly want to serve our country and not themselves would run.

I even think,, and it's not a popular idea, but, go to a one party system. There would still be the checks and balances because people have different ideologies. There would be more middle of the road in there. There would be NO party to hide behind. Then these guys would get down to work.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:08 pm

yah its like how i always say that while money itself is not evil it is a tool of this world that allows us to bater more easily for food and goods, it is the greed for money that is evil. when you overpay people for a job that doesnt justify the amount paid then you get people who are just after the money and not really caring about the job itself. thats why i think that doctors salaries should be more humbly regulated as well. i mean for their time and effort in school to be a doctor they should be well compensated and all that but im sayin a lot are aslso overpaid and so what we have is a problem of many doctors who dont treat patients like people but they are treated like paychecks. ddoctors will ignore the hrealth concerns of the poor while performin uncessary procedures on the rich for their insurance money. i think this holds true of any overpaid job, wether one is a doctor or a politician and i think the proof of it is in the pudding so to speak...

the government officials were originally paid as much as they are beczsause it isnt an easy job this is true. thier lives are even at risk as a politician. but when it comes to perks earmarks lobbyists and overpaid bonuses for doing nothing but being corrupt then that only feeds the firews of greed

i believe rulers dont deserve to live in palaces or be pampered any more than anyone else. but living in palaces and being pampered should take place only because that ruler has a contract with his people to protect them and hrelp them in their time of need. they arent there to be dictators and enjoy ordering people around, but rather their original job was to guide and protect. a great ruler is compassionate and wise but is capable of doing whatever it takes to protect their people. even die for them if that is what is truly going to help them the best. in return for their part of the contract, the taxes from the people that arent spent on communal needs will help pay for protection for the ruler in the form of a fortress/palace thingie and give them a pampered lifestyle because ruling a country is stressfgul business and the people should respect the ruler who is willing to at a moments notice lay down their lives and risk lodsing everything for their people.

but our rulers i do not believe are upholding their end of this contract and have instead began embezzeling funds from the tax payers in the form of wasted funding illplaced fundingf earmarks and other such things and has began to bully its people instead of proitect them.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:35 pm

You said it , Ussula. They are bullies and care nothing for the people they were elected to serve. If they really cared, none of the BS we have been witness to would have happened. All of the recent stuff is just a vendetta against Obama. Because he is an "outsider"? To me that sounds like a good thing. Because he's half black? Please. Plus he has come up with some excellent ideas - they need time to work, but the mess wasn't created in a few months either and it will take time to fix. I wouldn't want that job for anything.

Universal healthcare would work - we already have an HMO system in place. Costs would come down across the board because the big payday would be gone. The doctors who are in medicine solely for the big bucks would go away - the ones who truly want to help people would benefit all. SSI and SSDI rolls would fall as well because so many, us included, had to utilize it in order to have healthcare for our kids.

This subject makes me crazy. It is such a simple concept. Again, Americans are scared to death of change. Everyone would have some premium to pay based on income. If people want to keep their overpriced, underpaying insurance policies - let 'em.

Insurance is the reason healthcare costs so much in the first place. Way back in the day, doctors and hospitals figured out they could charge whatever the heck they wanted and it would be paid. Insurance companies figured out that they could charge whatever and we would have to pay it if we wanted coverage. what a scam!!

I just hope people use their brains and not the media at election time. I hope young people vote as well - many say they won't because their vote doesn't count and there is no one to vote for ( i agree with them to a point, but I always vote). It'll be interesting for sure!!
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:15 pm

i agree with pretty much all of what you just said. as far as voting goes i figured out the first time george bush jr made it to office that our votes dont count. he should never have been in office either time. one of the elections his ooponent actually wont the popular vote but the electoral college votes overrode that and put bush in office. and another electoral year bush's brother jeb was governor of florida at the time, a key state in the election for that year, and jeb had ordered a bunch of new electronic voting booths. well the voting booths didnt work right and kept acting up and he kept having to throw out all the votes and make people revoite...it sounds fioshy to me... so should we bother to vorte aty all? some would say if you dont at lreast try to vote then you dont havew the right to complai nabout the outcome. well if the votes are rigged to begin with we may not ever even know about it cuz we would just be rtold our peers voted in majority for bish...
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:21 am

Exactly - that's why the electoral college needs to go. It was put into place because there was no way to count each and every vote in any given area. It would have been very difficult for many people to even get to the polling places. It took weeks for news to get from one place to another. We now have instantaneous communication and access to pretty much anything we need to know. It is just too easy to manipulate the outcome. As we have seen........

People have to remember that the constitution was written 230+ years ago and some things are just outdated. Rules and regulations have to change along with the population. We have come a very long way since 1781.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think of this?   Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:25 am

Ussula2 wrote:
onetruebeliever wrote:
Oh my gosh SC! I hope it wasn't hateful. We were just having a grown up discussion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one has the right to be mean and hateful because they don't agree. I don't blame you. Good grief!


what the heck...thats ridiculous...i hope it wasnt anything threatening or mean to you.

I've not really had the time to dive much into this topic-its not one that would be a quick post for me Smile

SC if its anything that needs to be brought to my attention please let me know. I want everyone to be able to post here without feeling breath down their necks.

Everyone has the right to their own opinion, yes even people who disagree. I just want to make sure that it was a neutral stated email and nothing that was over the top.

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